So all of these things are now starting to accumulate in the sense of our understanding the very subtle effects and impact of virus itself on an immune system at the time that the immune system is relatively intact as opposed to being devastated by large amounts of virus.

GEORGE STRAIT: And the two-word question, so what?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI: So what? What it tells us is that the principle of getting virus to as low as you possibly can still holds. But from 1996 -- the famous eradication time -- until now, we've realized that you can't really just hammer people more and more to try to get the virus to below the detectable level. So that gets us to think again about, at the time you get as much mileage as you can out of the anti-retrovirals, what about things like therapeutic immunizations, like immune enhancers, like things that can get the body to exercise its own defenses.

Now, again, you say, gee, okay, what else is new? But the fact is you remember the field went through phases. We didn't have anti-virals. Then anti-virals were only the answer. Then the therapeutic [unintelligible] said, forget about anti-virals, let's do immunological enhancement. And now in 2002, we're saying, as is usually the case when people of good will disagree, it's probably a combination of both.